I have been following the latest in this thread & thought of putting my 2 cents to it.
As proved in recent WC, with the new field restriction rules came in to effect in 2013, every batsman had improved their Av & SR a few notches up (as seen in the few examples given below). We all know that UT was deprived of that benefit, since he was hardly given any opportunity by SJ for 22 months, since 2013 (limiting to just 5 random ODIs). Just Before those rules came in 2013, even Dilly had a batting Av of 35.69 Av from 225 innings, which he had massively improved to 39.65 Av at the end of April 2015 (utilizing the FR benefit to the max during last 2yrs - details given below).
That was the simple SOLE reason behind Dilly's IMPROVEMENT as well as in the cases of all others around the globe (including Sanga), who enjoyed the FR benefits. So you CANNOT blame UT or compare his case with others, because he was Virtually AXED from the ODI scene during the beneficial period enjoyed by the rest. can you deny this fact?
If allowed to play as others, UT would have certainly raised his Av & SR significantly like the rest in the trade.
You CANNOT say that UT had not ATTEMPTED to raise his SR & AV in recent times, since the ONLY opportunities that he got to play any cricket were domestic premiere division & other domestic tournaments.
Look at his following performances in recent times:
UltraTech Cement Super 4's Twenty20 Tournament, 2014 - topped the batting list.
WU Tharanga 3 in - 157r - 52.33 Av - 155.44 SR - 2 x50 (22 x 4s - 4 x 6s)
Records / Premier Limited Over Tournament, 2014/15
Tharanga : 5in - 255 r- 118* HS - 63.75 Av - 111.84 SR -1x 100- 2 x 50 (27x4s -11x6s)
(Nondescripts Cricket Club)
Premier League Tournament, 2014/15
Tharanga ; 11 in - 457 r - 135 HS - 45.70 Av - 78.38 SR -1x100 - 2x50 (68 x4s -5x6s)
(Nondescripts Cricket Club)
**** NONE CAN Deny the Fact, IF Upul Was Given the REASONABLE opportunities that he DESERVED during the 2013-2015 with the FR Rules Benefits Enjoyed by others, that He Would have CERTAINLY Increased his Overall Credentials par with all other capable batsmen, who did so..!
Frequently edging Openers obviously CANNOT survive to maintain a 30-40 batting Average, throughout their careers. As everyone knows, LONGER they maintained such career Average record BETTERS the credential reflecting their CAPABILITIES as Openers! So that is the ONLY Acceptable Criteria to measure the ability of an Opener. Upul Tharanga's career record as Number One ODI Opener expanded over 8 years.: 151 in - 4,902 runs -34.27 Av- 74.01 SR - 174* HS.
**** There is NO OTHER number one Opener exists in the World today who had played that many (151 innings) ODIs in that position & scored that many runs maintaining such Average 34.27. Also, it is noteworthy that UT had maintained his 34 Average without the benefit of New Field restriction Rules enjoyed by all others since 2013 to improve their batting Averages a few notches up as clearly seen below.
Guptil ( 2009-2012): 63 in - 2151 runs - 37.73 Av - 2x100- 17x50
(2009-2015): 39.77Av - 7x100- 22x50
Warner (2009-2012): 34 in - 1050 runs - 30.88 Av - 2x100 – 5x50
(2009-2015): 34.91 Av- 4x100 - 10x50
(2007-2012): 81 in - 1978 runs - 30.43 Av - 2x100 - 12 x 50
(2007-2015): 39.49 Av - 7x100 -25 x 50
Sanga ( 2000-2012); 316 in - 10915 runs - 38.56 Av - 14 x 100 - 73 x 50
(2000-2015): 41.98 Av - 25 x100 - 93 x 50
Dilshan (1999-2012): 225 in - 6854 runs - 35.69 Av - 14 x 100 - 27 x 50
(1999-2015): 39.65 Av - 22 x 100 - 43 x 50
So obviously, if UT had been allowed a reasonable window of opportunity to play & utilized the new rule benefits enjoyed by every other player to improve their Averages during the past 22 months, UT would have certainly raised his Average a few notches up as yhe rest.! After all he is the most experienced Number One opener in the world today & this is a FACT that none can logically deny.
The way Dilshan is playing at the moment with a ODI average close to 40, that 24% will go down even more......as the number of matches also go up..
Because he CORRECTS his flaws.. which is something missing from Tharanga...
Take Sanath/Gilli for instance; not the best technicians that were around... but u see them on that LIST? NO (mind u they have played way more than Tharanga as OPENERS)
They found a way to handle the swing & seam... Tharanga STILL has not!!!!
and BOTH of those guys had S/R around 90s to go with their 32-ish AVERAGES
Tharanga has an average of 34 to go with an S/R of 73...
which shows he is neither AGGRESSIVE nor CONSISTENT(sorry post-2007 u need at least 35+ to be considered consistent)
to have an impact in today's cricket u need either an average close to 40 or a S/R close to 80
and Tharanga has NEITHER
@ Upeerct: I apologize for my genuine mistake & it was not deliberate in any way. I never argue on things that I don't believe or see as the truth. That is not my style. Otherwise I wouldn't have quoted the links which I took them & clearly showed how I did all the calculations for anyone to see the mistake in this forum. This is the absolute truth in this matter.
Let me clear this, As you have pointed out Upul has 28.6 % C by Wk dismissals playing in 151 innings as number One opener & Dilly has 24.7% C by Wk dismissals playing as Number 2 Opener in 134 innings.
Upul's number of C by Wk dismissals is just marginally 3.9 % higher than Dilly's, playing in 17 innings (17 / 134 = ) 12.6 % more than Dilly.
Obviously Upul had faced the new ball attack more than Dilly & as I have pointed out before, this factor can be easily accounted for that marginal difference of 3.9 % C by Wk dismissals between them, as anyone can see.
Anyhow, the main point is, as I have explained in previous posting, when you factored the number of innings batted in number 1 or 2 positions, compared to batters in all other positions, the number of c by wk dismissals INCREASE significantly due to the new ball vulnerability as explained before. Therefore, tabulating a list of such dismissals without taking that factor in to consideration has no value or fair view (as seen in such list provided by Uppercut) & it CANNOT be used to MEASURE any significant FLAW in any batsman in ANY WAY.
As we all know, The career batting Averages, total runs accumulated & that Average maintained number of innings, high scoring frequencies etc are the ONLY measures UNIVERSALLY accepted to JUDGE a player's abilities &PRODUCTIVITY..!
THIS IS WHAT U GET WHEN U USE DILSHAN'S TOTAL DISMISSALS INSTEAD OF JUST "CAUGHT" DISMISSALS:
HERE S A BONUS:
THIS IS HOW U "MANIPULATED" THE STATS:
TO SHOW DILSHAN GOT A HIGHER "CAUGHT BEHIND" % , U USED THARANGA'S TOTAL DISMISSALS(including BOWLED, LBWs, STUMPED) TO DIVIDE
BUT U "MAGICALLY" FORGOT THAT AND USED ONLY "CAUGHT" DISMISSALS TO DIVIDE Dilshan's....
WHY DIDN'T U USE DILSHAN'S "TOTAL" DISMISSALS JUST LIKE U DID THARANGA'S???
Oh u wanna talk abt stats from cricinfo? fine by me...
Total CAUGHT dismissals = 85
CAUGHT by keeper = 30
CAUGHT behind % = (30/85) x 100 = 35.2
Total CAUGHT dismisalls = 96
CAUGHT by keeper = 41
CAUGHT behind % = (41/96) x 100 = 42.7
@ UppercuT :
Let me ask u a few simple questions any dummy would know:
1) Batsmen in which positions of a batting order face the the highest number of balls in initial spells of seaming attacks with deadliest new ball movement & undergo the highest risk of edging balls behind the wicket (compared to batters in any other positions), while dealing with it in initial phase of every inning ? OPENERS ! (indisputable)
2) Tharanga is currently the World's Most Experienced Number One OPENER who had played 151 Innings in Number 1 position & had faced 6623 deliveries in that position, including all initial spells of NEW BALL Seam attacks, in all 151 ODI innings (he is one of the highest number of innings played Number-one EVER in entire world, because most others openers were promoted from lower positions). So the question is which player in the world today had faced the largest number of initial spell new ball deliveries, dealing with the HIGHEST risk of edging in initial spells (described in question one)? THARANGA.! (indisputable)
As anyone can see, Caught behind dismissal percentage tabulation, Without considering or factoring the most important batting POSITION of a batsman or number of innings played in that position is utterly USELESS piece of junk. since someone's dismissal modes playing 25 innings as as an opener & another 100 innings in somewhere from number 3 to 11 are all considered together as total dismissals to divide, Caught Behind dismissals in those percentage calculations.
For example, a batter at number 5 or anywhere else compared to Opening positions will obviously have much lesser amount of CB dismissals as already pointed out .
Consider the example of Dilshan's career, started as a lower down & middle order batsmen. So significant part of his career was with lesser risk of getting out caught behind and @Uppercut's unauthentic tabulation did not factor that in it.
Look at Dillys record batting as an Opener in 2nd position (promoted from middle order to open in 2009)
2nd position - 2009-2015: 85 Dis - 0 bwd - 55 c fie - 30 c wk = 30 / 85 = 35.29%
*** Dilshan's Caught Behind percentage in his career as an OPENER is = 35.29%
This is UT's dismissals record as Number One opener:
1st position - 2005-2014: 143 Dis - 26 bwd - 55 c fie - 41c wk = 41 /143 = 28.67%
@Uppercut, LOOK at Dilshan's CB dismissals record (35.29%) in Opener's position
UT's much longer Career record as Number One Opener CB dismissals (28.67%).
WHO is Better ?
DON"T Quote HILARIOUS crap taken from SILLY Sites to Console Yourself ;D)))
Didn't you post this crap before..? How funny!
CricInfo is the Only reliable database for stats.!
Kumar Sangakkara retired from one-day cricket at the end of the 2015 World Cup and is set to sign-off from Tests during the series against India in August. Suggesting that he continue, de Zoysa said, "it would be a tragedy for him to stop now."
"He can probably surpass (Sachin) Tendulkar's number of Test centuries if he keeps going," he said. "He is already no. 2 to (Don) Bradman and he will probably retain that position in batting average terms. There is so much more he can offer for Sri Lanka."
i think he was telling about sanga, not mathews.
Mr Anonymous regarding your comment that Tharanga has scored well in domestic cricket in last 2 years in List A in domestic cricket....what rules do they use in domestic cricket? What bats, pitches, ground etc.
You have just debunked the theory of the author in the article that Tharanga has not benefited in last couple of years with the way cricket has been favouring batsmen! Yet the overall record in List A has same average as ODI career.
Answers to podi-panda questions (in order)
1.NO - I am not obsessed with SJ or any SJ look clones like KJP
2. YES - Especially Shaky against new ball in conditions that have bounce, or movement of the ball. But no different to UT in same conditions.
3. MAYBE - certainly better than being shafted up and down the order, and in and out of the team. A decent run at 4 would be good.
4. YES but Tharanga is also part of that problem. After 2011 WC he wasn't scoring at that supposed rate. In relation to WC the biggest fault lies with previous selection regime. They should have been giving decent opportunity for all who were potentially openers KJP, Tharanga, if Marvan/deZoysa/SJ thought Dimuth he should have been given a run too to prove his worth rather than picked on 1 Test century.
5. NO. You pick openers that are in currently in form, and currently fit not based on the past. Do you think India should recall Sehwag and Gambhir based on their past records? Based on your answer to this question we will see who really is insane!
In terms of WC, Dilshan is still there, despite what he says I doubt he can be around till next WC. Whilst he is there there is lots of experience.
And UT experience as a opener in NZ and Aus isn't great! It's more of a bad experience!
Personally, I would like to see Dilshan slowly phase himself out in the next year from ODIs. But if he is fit and performing well no need to kick him out immediately. As he said himself, the challenge is for one of the youngsters to come challenge him for his position. Sadly that is not happening.
At 30 Tharanga is entering what should be his prime years as a batsman. I'm not anti-Tharanga I just want to see better from him. That will help both the team and himself.
Getting himself an overseas stint outside of Asia would help his game. But that's up to him and his management. Some players can't be bothered to their own detriment. There is player whose name I have mentioned in one of these responses, whom when I contacted him about playing in England a couple of years ago, when there was an opportunity, responded they wanted an IPL contract instead, (which he didn't get) and not surprisingly has not been selected for the national side since! I hope UT doesn't have same attitude. Maybe some of you close fans of his can make sure he doesn't!
It's a big call. Whilst I personally think it's unlikely, anything is possible in sport.
One factor that won't help Angelo is the amount of Test matches Sri Lanka plays, including the the number of Tests per series some nations offer Sri Lanka.
As India have become more powerful and financially lucrative, bigger nations often wanted 4 or 5 Tests against them.
SL struggle to receive and/or host a 3 test series against some opposition.
Angelo has been in terrific touch as a Test batsmen, in a real purple patch, but that won't last forever as his career progresses. There will be both ups and downs like all players.
At the moment he is looking batting sensibly in Tests, which will be more important now with Mahela gone, and Sanga on the way out.